Young India 99

Great Indian Spiritual Discussion

Rohit:

 

Hope you both are doing good!

 

I am searching for an answer related to religion and you both were the first to come in my mind, so this mail.

 

I have a friend here at Pune, She is very unselfish, humble and pure, but she doesn't believe in God and prayers etc(kind of atheist).

 

I had a discussion with her on religion, in which she asked me a very valid question ,

 

"What is that I am missing as a result of not having faith in God? I have seen so many ppl who go to temples have faith in God and all but don't care abt the poor ppl around them, Religion hasn't been able to make them a better person? What value will religion add to me?"

 and

What do you think?

Rajshekhar:

Thanks for considering me for such discussion.I might have read some books, but very little of it have i brought into practice.Anyways i will try to answer that question according to my capacity.

What you loose if you dont have faith in GOD?
The answer to this question depends on the interpretation of the person regarding the word GOD.what is GOD is the question that need to be answered first.Many have vague idea that GOD is someone who sits in the sky out there.It remindes about some funny sayings of Late swami purushottamanada.Once a small child asked swamiji (devaru elli) where is god , to it he replied in a poetic way saying (nenedavara manadalli)the person who remembers him he stays in his mind. I am not the right person here who can describe what is GOD.one strange thing about this question is that there are as many answers to that as many faiths in the world.Suppose say there are 1 million faiths in the world than there are 1 million descriptions about the god.Its like reflecting the sunlight by various mirrors of different sizes , shapes and colors .

GOD is pure,unselfish etc etc.So if a person has faith in his qualities and not having faith in the GOD himself is absurd.He is indirectly worshipping the GOD.

I think bhagavad geeta has made it clear that god is not an isolated being.There sri krishna says wherever you see remarkable things,remarkable works know for sure that i am there.

So god is every thing .everything is in god.

So if i define god as faith itself than the question what i loose if i have no faith in faith(GOD) has no meaning.
NOTE:there is nothing in the world like Blind Faith.Faith is faith ...Sri Ramakrishna

Answer to next question ,i have seen people having faith in god ,going to the temples yet not helping poor and needy.
see going to the temples and performing  rituals is just a kindergarten in the religion.Religion is the manifestation of the divinity which is already in man says swamiji.

If a person who is pure,selfless,generous,one who has controlled his mind is more religious than the person who does lots of rituals outside but having no goodness inside.(purandara dasara padagalu:horage mindu valage miyadavara kandu beragaagi noduthida purandara vittala.)

Practising true religion will surely give positive results.

I just wrote what came to my mind .Avinash  will be able to put more light on this subject.

Have a nice day.

Avinash:

Am really happy that I finally found some people who really interested in discussing about religion and God.

As already Shekar has  explained most of the points, let me add some more supporting points to it..

As Shri Ramakrishna says "Each Jiva is a Shiva" that is God Shiva resides in the  each individual so serving the human beings is the one of the greatest worship that we can do on this earth. Swami Vevekananda, disciple of Shri Ramakrishna who was initially highly influenced by western thoughts finally came to the conclusion saying that "Daridra Devo bhava",  validating the Shri Ramakrishna's sentence.

"I have seen so many ppl who go to temples have faith in God and all but don't care abt the poor ppl around them, Religion hasn't been able to make them a better person?"

-
As per this sentence I completely agree with your friend. As Swamiji told if a person is completely unselfish then no religious book or God is required for him/her. Actually speaking  this is very ideal case, being in todays complex society and not being selfish is very hard. Even if he\she is unselfish, circumstances around us forces us to be selfish. People those who go to temple and do rituals are also going towards the God but with very low pace,
they are in still preliminary stage, for them even though God is very near still far away. Hence according to me only that religion is true which teaches us unselfishness.
              And coming to 1st part "What is that I am missing as a result of not having faith in God?. "
                        This sentence is  contridictory with her second sentence. Even though her 2nd sentence show us that she is very near to God but her ignorance about him kept her far away . If she thinks she does't believe in God and can do unselfish work then she is completely wrong beacuse each Karma has got each own results which we have to receive  unavoidably. Now here you can say that if we do good works then we receive good results thats really good but we have to remeber that this very result is binding us to this world and pushes away from  God, as according to Swamiji these results are nothing but a chain which bind us to this world, Good results are nothing but Gold chain and bad results are nothing but iron chain but both are chain only, now how to overcome this bongdage is the challage to us. Here we cannot sit doing nothing being afraid of results, the only way to come out is to surrender ourselves into the God. Now she may not beleive in God but as if she get exprience of this world she will come to know it beacuse happyness(result of good karma) and misery (result of bad karma) are nothing but two faces of a single coin and going beyond these two is our Aim. We want niether this worldy happiness nor this misery ,our real state is "Sacchdananda" full of bliss.

Hey Rohit introduce your friend to this online discussion so that it will become more interesting. Raju, you can start a Goolge group where we can discuss such things. Let it star from only 3 people but it gradully grows then we can exhange more thoughts which will be very beneficial to us and to othet people too.

Shri Ramakrishnarpanamastu.

Rohit:

 

After I had the discussion with you on saturday on Religion, I felt there were points where I couldn't give you the best answer,

 

Avinash and Rajshekhar are 2 of my best friends, both of them r Swami Vivekanandji followers and have strong faith in God.

 

I asked them a question you asked me and here are their answers:

 

The answer Avinash gave is on the lines wat i was trying to say tat day.

 

Sumary of Avinash's Mail: We all wish to be happy , but action in this world makes us both happy and sad, at some point we want to break this chain of action and reaction. Religion gives us the path by which we can break this chain.

Please go through the below replies from my friends.

 

If you are interested in further discussions I can introduce you to them and we can have a healthy discussion.

 

If you feel I am trying to force on my opinion on u or I am boring u or wat ever the reason u want to stop this discussion here itself, don't hesitate to tell it directly . 

 

Hey Rohit.. Firstly I don't think at all that you are trying to force your opinions/beliefs on me...

But yes you are trying to convince me on something, and I m trying to convince you that you may be wrong.. fair enough....

Well I went through replies of your friends... I couldn't exactly relate to many things... I felt what you and your friends are talking about religion are high fundoo things..

@All

I am a layman in this area....

But here are my views-

When human beings came into existence, there was no religion.. Religion was created by humans, for humans and maybe for the good of humans.. But instead of resulting in the benefit of mankind, it has been exploited and used for dividing people.. History is witness of how many fights/wars have been there, only for establishing one religion higher over the other... If religion is path that leads to god, then why are there so many different paths, that too which cross eachother or contradict eachother... Why is there Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc etc. Why their rituals, customs, traditions, are not in sync??Like they say, all religions suggest be open to other faith and religions, but I feel mere faith in one religion means you don't have faith in other religions.. One religion may say not to eat meat, other one may suggest to eat... So now its upto you to believe in which religion...... And this belief itself is dividing people.....Like Avinash said there may be 1 million beliefs, which means 1 million paths to reach god..

But is every religion telling its followers the same things?? Then why don't we see that in reality??

And what about an ordinary uneducated person... He doesn't know Shri Ramkrishna or Swami Vivekanada.. He doesn’t have access to bhagvad geeta, or bible or quran or any other religious books, scriptures.... He cannot afford to go to temples and follow any the customs, traditions, rituals, etc.. He doesn't know what is 'karma', 'Sacchdananda', etc. He does not know or understand - Religion is the manifestation of the divinity which is already in man... These definitions are for the learned, not for laymen... Is such a person not fit or qualified for any religion??

Like Rajshekhar accepts he has read many things, but very little of it he has brought into practice... And I guess that’s true with most of the people who believe in religion today... So what is the use of such religion then... I might as well not read anything, and not follow it rather than reading it and not following it... Like Avinash said, being unselfish is not easy in this world.. And there are hardly any people in today's world who are totally unselfish... I accept - that I cannot be unselfish, and if being unselfish is the only way to god, then I may never reach there... and get eternal happiness... So should I even try for it??

I don't want eternal happiness in my life/after life.. But I want to experience everything in life - happiness, sorrow, excitement, boredom, jealousy, friendship, love, hatred, anger, patience, passion, caring, tensions, etc etc... I want to live my life fully and then die peacefully.. that’s it....

I don't believe in God, I believe in human beings..You may see god in every human being, but I see human in every human being... If there's a true religion(if I may call it as religion I don't know) it will unite people and not divide people.. I believe in things and people that unite and not divide... I believe in people like Gandhiji, mother terresa who have always united people... I believe in them and their deeds and in any other person who unites and helps others....

I see unfortunate/under-privileged people around me all the time... And I feel it’s my duty to help them in any way I can.. And I help them because I feel happy and satisfied by doing so.. I don't do this in order to attain salvation.. But I do it because I like being useful to anyone in anyway...

Till now in my life, I have never felt the need to believe in Religion or God... And I don't know if this will ever change or not... I believe in rationalism, logic and reasoning...

Like swami vivekanada said (and Rohit shared this with me) - Be an atheist if you want, but do not believe in anything unquestionably...

So probably I am like that...

PS - I don't mean to hurt anybody's sentiments or beliefs.. I just shared my own personal views.... I don't mean to offend anyone..

Rajshekhar:

Hi all,

Neither do i have any issues if a person wants to be atheist nor do i wish everyone to theist.

Part 1:
If atheist 's philosophy is true than that does'nt mean that the person who believes in god is wrong.

Thats the mystery of this world, this is also true and that is also true.See even light behaves like photon at one time and like wave at some other time.So light is a photon is as much true as light is a wave.I just want to tell that theists and atheists are both correct.

Let me not confuse a lot.Just go through the following few simple  universal Equations.
1. Truth = strength
This is one the important formula to distinguish between truthfulness and falsity. Here
strength has very broad meaning apart from our limited physical strength.
2. Expansion = life; contraction = death
Freedom, broadness, struggle are all the signs of life whereas narrow mindedness self
centeredness, selfishness are the signs of death
3. Action + unselfishness = true action
True action is defined as the action performed without any selfish motives
4. Man – self control = animal
Animals are slaves of their genetic constitution only man has the power to go beyond
genetic constitution and exercises self control.

If our philosophy satisfies the above equations than we are on the right track..
 
Part 2:

Sri Ramakrishna followed all religions and verified that all religions reach to a same goal.

There are four Yoga system in the sanathana dharma(which is not created by man but we can tell they are discovered by man)
Bhakti yoga:attaining perfection with help of personal god.
jnana yoga:Deals with knowledge of impersonal god.
karma yoga:working without expectation of fruits(does not involve god)
Raj yoga:Psychic control,attaining perfection by controlling the mind(does not involve god)
         
 The various ways which lead towards the total evolution of human beings are
scientifically classified into 4 paths. They are karma yoga (the yoga of action), jnana
yoga (the yoga of pure knowledge), bhakti yoga (the yoga of devotion, pure love), raja
yoga (the yoga of self discipline and mind control). It is interesting to know that all of
these paths lead to the same goal. Any one path or all or combinations of the paths can be
chosen to reach supreme goal. This property is in accordance with OR gate.

Buddha is the only man who attained perfection without believing in God.He was an atheist.
Later he himself became God.(Twist)

Basavanna fought against the caste system.
Later his followers created a new caste called "Lingayat" in his name.

So whom to blame.It is the weak followers who wrongly understand religion and bring bad name to their religion.

But religion is untouched by good and bad.Like wind that carries good and bad smell but wind itself is untouched by both.

Q:I believe in people like mother teresa and mahatma gandhi.
The main reason for these to legends to become successful in their deeds is  because they had strong faith in their ishta devata.
Mother theresa saw jesus in every patient who came to her and she served them happily like serving jesus.

Mahatma Gandhi, a stuanch follower of sanathana dharma always had auspicious Ram Naam on his tongue.His faith in his religion taught him the greatness of non violence and truth.

Here is one of the email that i recieved from my friend.This content suits the present discussion.Go through it.Have a nice time.

Rohit:

With respect to this

None of us is hurt or offended. Ya I am trying to convince you something , in the mean time actually I am strengthening my own belief. All the questions you asked are very much valid and we will try to provide u a valid answer for these :)

Nivedita:

Nice story Raj... I think I had read it many days ago... but had forgotten...

 

Lets not get into the discussion of theist or atheists... Coz I cannot say for sure I fall in which category.. Since there can be things which atheists believe which I don't...

What I know and understand of God is that God is faith... If i have faith that an idol is a god, then it is god for me, otherwise it is just a piece of stone... And when people are in trouble or need any help, it is their faith in god (and not god himself) that gives them strength and courage to move on..

Lets talk about religion...

 

I don't know what sanathana dharma says... coz I have never read, heard it and I am sure majority of the common men doesn't know it... many people don't know - what is Bhakti yoga, jnana yoga, karma yoga, Raj yoga.. How can one be sure that these are the (only) ways to reach the ultimate goal??

Sanathana dharma(Hinduism) suggests that these are the ways and if one has faith in Hinduism, then one will beleive that these are the ways... But one may not know what other religions say, what they believe...

 

Religion is created by man.. I may be wrong, but this is what I feel-

Religion is a set of faiths, principles that a set of people believe in... Like god, it is just a faith.. Do this, to get this.. do that, to get that.. follow this to get eternal happiness... Be unselfish to attain salvation..

Tomorrow I may create my own religion, list down what my faiths/beliefs are and then give it a new name, and that's my religion... People who believe in my beliefs, may start following it.. and this faith will be passed on to future generations.. and this how it will spread... gradually but steadily...

 

I have one question-

Suppose I(any layman in this world) start believing in religion, say Hinduism, what is it that I should be doing differently in my life (from what I am doing right now)?



Rohit:

I have one question-

Suppose I(any layman in this world) start believing in religion, say Hinduism, what is it that I should be doing differently in my life (from what I am doing right now)?

 

Nivedita I believe with faith in religion(God) you will be able to do whatever you are doing today more efficiently and in a better way.

Because religion gives u that strength, it adds in a new dimension to ur thought ,a higher purpose to ur life.  

Will try to explain the rationale behind it later :)

Avinash:

Hey Rohit.. Firstly I don't think at all that you are trying to force your opinions/beliefs on me...

    But yes you are trying to convince me on something, and I m trying to convince you that you may be wrong.. fair enough....

    

    Well I went through replies of your friends... I couldn't exactly relate to many things... I felt what you and your friends are talking about religion are high fundoo things..

    

    @All

    I am a layman in this area....

    But here are my views-

    

    When human beings came into existence, there was no religion.. Religion was created by humans, for humans and maybe for the good of humans.. But instead of resulting in the benefit of mankind, it has been exploited and used for dividing people.. History is witness of how many fights/wars have been there, only for establishing one religion higher over the other... If religion is path that leads to god, then why are there so many different paths, that too which cross eachother or contradict eachother... Why is there Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc etc. Why their rituals, customs, traditions, are not in sync??Like they say, all religions suggest be open to other faith and religions, but I feel mere faith in one religion means you don't have faith in other religions.. One religion may say not to eat meat, other one may suggest to eat... So now its upto you to believe in which religion...... And this belief itself is dividing people.....Like Avinash said there may be 1 million beliefs, which means 1 million paths to reach god..

    But is every religion telling its followers the same things?? Then why don't we see that in reality??

    And what about an ordinary uneducated person... He doesn't know Shri Ramkrishna or Swami Vivekanada.. He doesn’t have access to bhagvad geeta, or bible or quran or any other religious books, scriptures.... He cannot afford to go to temples and follow any the customs, traditions, rituals, etc.. He doesn't know what is 'karma', 'Sacchdananda', etc. He does not know or understand - Religion is the manifestation of the divinity which is already in man... These definitions are for the learned, not for laymen... Is such a person not fit or qualified for any religion??

    

    Like Rajshekhar accepts he has read many things, but very little of it he has brought into practice... And I guess that’s true with most of the people who believe in religion today... So what is the use of such religion then... I might as well not read anything, and not follow it rather than reading it and not following it... Like Avinash said, being unselfish is not easy in this world.. And there are hardly any people in today's world who are totally unselfish... I accept - that I cannot be unselfish, and if being unselfish is the only way to god, then I may never reach there... and get eternal happiness... So should I even try for it??

    

    I don't want eternal happiness in my life/after life.. But I want to experience everything in life - happiness, sorrow, excitement, boredom, jealousy, friendship, love, hatred, anger, patience, passion, caring, tensions, etc etc... I want to live my life fully and then die peacefully.. that’s it....

    

    I don't believe in God, I believe in human beings..You may see god in every human being, but I see human in every human being... If there's a true religion(if I may call it as religion I don't know) it will unite people and not divide people.. I believe in things and people that unite and not divide... I believe in people like Gandhiji, mother terresa who have always united people... I believe in them and their deeds and in any other person who unites and helps others....

    I see unfortunate/under-privileged people around me all the time... And I feel it’s my duty to help them in any way I can.. And I help them because I feel happy and satisfied by doing so.. I don't do this in order to attain salvation.. But I do it because I like being useful to anyone in anyway...

    

    Till now in my life, I have never felt the need to believe in Religion or God... And I don't know if this will ever change or not... I believe in rationalism, logic and reasoning...

    Like swami vivekanada said (and Rohit shared this with me) - Be an atheist if you want, but do not believe in anything unquestionably...

    So probably I am like that...

    

    PS - I don't mean to hurt anybody's sentiments or beliefs.. I just shared my own personal views.... I don't mean to offend anyone..

    
Avinash:

    Namasthe Nivedita Sister and all,

                      
1. "When human beings came into existence, there was no religion.. Religion was created by humans, for humans and maybe for the good of humans.. But instead of resulting in the benefit of mankind, it has been exploited and used for dividing people.. History is witness of how many fights/wars have been there, only for establishing one religion higher over the other... If religion is path that leads to god, then why are there so many different paths, that too which cross eachother or contradict eachother... Why is there Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc etc. Why their rituals, customs, traditions, are not in sync??Like they say, all religions suggest be open to other faith and religions, but I feel mere faith in one religion means you don't have faith in other religions.. One religion may say not to eat meat, other one may suggest to eat... So now its upto you to believe in which religion...... And this belief itself is dividing people.....Like Avinash said there may be 1 million beliefs, which means 1 million paths to reach god."
                               Rligion is not something set of rule of which are formed by human beings to make the society better.
Religion is the universal truth which was there even before uvivesre has been created, it is there and it will be there. This truth does't require man to pay homage to it but it is we who have to pay homage to it. This is universal truth is nothing but oneness of everything. This truth has been the basis of all religion though because our ignorance we are facing all evils in this world.And regarding different paths to this truth as we see there are so many people with different mind set, so to attain the this truth through different paths we have classifeid minds of diffrent people into 4 sets.They have been explained by shekar in his reply mail. And regarding different customs of the religion this is one of the best explianation i heard ,see Afganistan is the rigion full of desert if you ask people there to take bath every day then it will be a big problem for them so what it had been return in there book is that taking bath occasionally is not a mistake if you want to apply same rule which is there in India then whole sysytem will be screwed so from this we can tell that religion is the one whcich takes the loacl requirement
of the people along with the universal truth.We have 2 parts in religiouss books, one kind of book is called Shruti which deals with universal truth applicable evrywhere and other is called smruthi which consider the local conditions into picture and tell us how to reach final truth. So, so far what we see different religions are nothing but modification of same truth according to place, people and there circumstances. To come out of such dilemma it is necessary that we know such things and maintain harmony within us.

2." And what about an ordinary uneducated person... He doesn't know Shri Ramkrishna or Swami Vivekanada.. He doesn’t have access to bhagvad geeta, or bible or quran or any other religious books, scriptures.... He cannot afford to go to temples and follow any the customs, traditions, rituals, etc.. He doesn't know what is 'karma', 'Sacchdananda', etc. He does not know or understand - Religion is the manifestation of the divinity which is already in man... These definitions are for the learned, not for laymen... Is such a person not fit or qualified for any religion??"
                       Yes we need to work a lot in this area. Only way to come out such things is to make some how teachings of these great people has to reach masses. And being exposed to such teaching we have great responsibity that some how they spread among common people. Teachings of Shri Ramakrishna are so simple by reading we will come to know that thet are ment for all. He follwed all religions and came to conclusion that there is truth in every riligion and lead us to common goal. This he explains with a small example that how people of different religion call water as pani, jal etc etc but truth is that all are one similarly muslim call God as Allha, Hindus as Shiva and christains as Jesus but in reality thet are all one.

3.

    "Like Rajshekhar accepts he has read many things, but very little of it he has brought into practice... And I guess that’s true with most of the people who believe in religion today... So what is the use of such religion then... I might as well not read anything, and not follow it rather than reading it and not following it... Like Avinash said, being unselfish is not easy in this world.. And there are hardly any people in today's world who are totally unselfish... I accept - that I cannot be unselfish, and if being unselfish is the only way to god, then I may never reach there... and get eternal happiness... So should I even try for it??"
  

                 Yes sister I agree that way to heaven is diffcult and through hell as Swami Vivekanada syas. But thinking of this and sitting quitely is not a solution. It has been always said that tracing the path of spirituality is like walking on the razor edge. This we will come to know only when our turns come. We will come to know that we have to sacrifice so many things to attain truth but if you get lettle grip of it alas I will tell you every moment of our life becomes heaven, if we learn enjoying suffering then there is no force in this world which can stop you by reaching the truth.

4."I don't want eternal happiness in my life/after life.. But I want to experience everything in life - happiness, sorrow, excitement, boredom, jealousy, friendship, love, hatred, anger, patience, passion, caring, tensions, etc etc... I want to live my life fully and then die peacefully.. that’s it...."
                            
                           As per my knoweledge such as all such things become mere when we start tracing the path of spirituality and start enjoying higher truth. This has been explained by A P J Abdul Kalam mail as in Shekars mail. Even I had the same attitude when I joined the BE but time has showed me that such thoughts arise from not having proper knowledge regargind truth of life.


5. "

    I don't believe in God, I believe in human beings..You may see god in every human being, but I see human in every human being... If there's a true religion(if I may call it as religion I don't know) it will unite people and not divide people.. I believe in things and people that unite and not divide... I believe in people like Gandhiji, mother terresa who have always united people... I believe in them and their deeds and in any other person who unites and helps others...."
            

                               Yes that is the truth but seeing human beings as beings require lot of efforts. to see others as human beings it needs we should bacome human being first.As Mahatma Gandi says " Be the change you want to see". Swami Vivekananda says perfect human being on earth is nothing but a God. In one of his conversion he says " What if Buddha and Christa were God and perfect, what about me and you"( not exact quote). Know its our turn to become perfect, let it be difficult or anything but trying hard to reach goal is better then sitting idle.



6."

    I see unfortunate/under-privileged people around me all the time... And I feel it’s my duty to help them in any way I can.. And I help them because I feel happy and satisfied by doing so.. I don't do this in order to attain salvation.. But I do it because I like being useful to anyone in anyway..."
             

                        Yes doing good work is the only way to get out of the salvation but doing it with higher thoughts in our mind will make us grow ,do the same work in better way. And higher thoughts we will get only in spiritual attitude. Let me join my hands in your work. Please let us know the activities you carry on for unfortunate/under-privileged people.


7. "

    Till now in my life, I have never felt the need to believe in Religion or God... And I don't know if this will ever change or not... I believe in rationalism, logic and reasoning...
"

                             If you dont feel like beleiving in God then its not at a problem. There is room for evryone in spirituality, it is very broad and waste and covers all set of minds as explained 4 ways to reach perfectness.
             
                          Sister I personally tell you to go through books of Swami Vivekananda specially "Jgan Yoga" part. It is very Rational and lOgical. We will come to know that we cannot find any other person like him in rationalism and logic.
                               Ha I want to tell you that Sister Nivediata was one of the great disciple of Swami Vivekananda. She has wrote a book called " My Master as I Saw" which is very famous I herad.

   
     
8.
  "
    PS - I don't mean to hurt anybody's sentiments or beliefs.. I just shared my own personal views.... I don't mean to offend anyone.."
                

                        Here you are trying to break very basis your aim,unity of us. How can you offend and hurt us if it so it is like hurtung yourself :)  :) :)

 Shri Ramakrishnarpanamastu.




Rohit:

Explanation to this:

 

How religion will help a common man?

I believe it helps you do your work more efficiently and stay more happy and free of tension than without this faith.

 

How does it help work more efficiently?

In simple words:

You have full faith in God so you don't worry abt the result of ur work (ur believe in God as a perfect judge helps u not worry abt result). you do ur work but are not worried abt the result this increases ur efficiency. I am sure you agree worry causes more tiredness than work itself.  

In Philosophical terms:

A Yogi (a follower of one of the yogas) sees action in inaction and inaction in action, this is possible only when there is no attachment to the action. When there is no attachment for u work is equivalent to rest.

 

So belief in God helps u worry less and do better work :)

 

How does it help u to stay more happy and free of tension?

In simple words:

Belief in God makes u feel I have somebody with me even in the worst of times, help build +ve attitude and hope. God acts like an unconditional companion :)

 

Philosophical view :

In this ever changing world there has to be something that doesn't change, we believe God/ Soul/ Brahman never change, they r always same, just imagine one small organisation cannot run without a leader how can this complex world run with out a leader to keep everything intact.

 

An imp take away:

In science we see again and again some ideal things (ideal gas, ideal engine) why do u refer these when it is said ideal gas cannot exit , ideal motor with 100% efficiency never exists, similarly trying to reach perfection(God) helps us to be a better and better person. But actually in humans Perfection is possible(as humans are much above machines) but difficult, let the capable try for perfection, but a common man can take as much of good from the religion as he wishes.

Rajshekhar:

Let me share few wonderful ideas of sri sri ravishankar which i heard today on television .

1.Never say i dont have this i dont have that.


Demigods will always be moving here there around us most of the time.The moment we say oh god i dont have money than gods will say tataastu and you will end up having no money.So never say i am dull,my iq is low,my memory is not good,i am not good looking,i am not strong etc.You never know when a demigod around you will listen to you and say tataastu.Be always positive.Let us always think good and be good.

2.Two keys to come out of worries and tension

There are two keys for the door of happiness and relaxation.First key is SO WHAT.If you are troubled by some problem,worries,threats etc.SO WHAT destroys them all.If SO WHAT didnt work than use SO HAM key.You are that you are that.You become so powerful and big that these mountain like problems appear like little sand.

3.Repetition ,boring or interesting?
The common thing between boredom and interesting work is repetition.So what is that which makes same repetition interesting and boring.Its LOVE.You keep  repeating the activities you love,you keep repeating the name whom you love,you keep  seeing the things you love,Still you dont feel boredom.Thats the idea behind japa and dhyana.You keep  repeating the holy name of god because you love him.You always wish to think of him because you love him.

STORY (extracted from the film MAALIK)

Once upon a time(Its a long time that i am writing or hearing  this phrase) there lived a great devotee of krishna.He used to read the Bhagavad geeta daily.Once his wife came to him and asked "Dont you get bored by reading that book again and again".To this he replies "Dont you get bored by drinking the same tea daily,dont you get bored by bathing daily.Reading Bhagavad geeta is like bathing my soul.Everytime i read it, i get new ideas , new inspiration.


Have a nice day.



Srinidhi:

About a week after this discussion started among you guys, I and Rohit got involved in this subject over IM. We had kind of off the record discussion on this subject. During that discussion all my response was spontaneous. Over the weeks that followed  I thought a bit deep about that discussion and also the one between you guys. I realized after that thought process that my reasoning and my respone would remain same even after all the thought process. That is because the factors which made me give those spontaneous response were the same which make me believe in religion and respect and alos agree with those who don't believe in religion. This might appear contradictiory but ours is a land of contradiction from historic times. We can believe and disagree on some aspects and both actually turn out to be true. Now this means that being a theist/atheist is not opposite. It is just that the intensity of belief is high or low.

Lets put on the spectacle of science and try to figure out what it has to say about God. We say that humans can think rationally/logically etc. But where do this 'thinking' arise from? Is it the neurons, neural network? As far as I know the buck stops at the neural network wrt thinking of humans. But has Science figured out what is the origin of thinking, emotions, feelings etc? Why is that some of the greatest scientists in this world believe in God. This is something which is inexplicable. And here our God steps in. God and Religion has all the answers which Science cannot explain. And it is obvious that such depth of knowledge cannot be understood easily. It requires one's commitment to dive into the depth of knowledge and discover the higher truths. This is the work area of swami vivekanandji and others who'd want to get a feel of the great knowledge. 

Now the God is kind. He doesn't tell that U dont know the greater truths of me and hence I hate you. In order to maintain heterogeneity in this world, he has made every human being different. Though the perseverance and belief of some make them to quench their thirst for this knowledge, at the same time it is not possible for all human beings.A majority of people do not want to get in depth. Some deny the existence, in words and in action( these are the people who deride religion and God w/o even trying to understand what it is ) where as many of us believe our action is our religion and manifest it in the form of service, love and kindness towards this world. As long as one is active towards the goal of the God(love and service), he/she being a theist or atheist doesn't matter. 

There are many people in this world to whom if i go and talk about gnana yoga, vedanta or spirituality etc they are surely gonna run away.(Am speaking in general. I have come across many people, youngsters in fact, in last 5 yrs) First, they think it is not for their age. Second, they feel they don't need it.

If its the first reason, God help them. If its the second, then I believe they should atleast give it a chance. Try understanding Religion, Spirituality, God and his ways. Once we start getting interested, we should try and interact more with people who have greater knowledge and also with people who contradict. This is when the things start getting clear. We may be happy now without spirituality and religion but who knows, understanding the same might reveal greater truths. Unless you stop eating plain rice and start eating rice with a delicious curry, you never know the real taste (even if u r happy with plain rice). Now this is progress. If one doesn't progress, he remains stagnant. So I feel, even if someone doesn't believe, they should try their hand at it once whenever they feel convenient.

I would like to give another analogy here. I am perfectly comfortable in my T shirt and shorts in Gulbarga's hot climate but if I go to Siberia/ North pole, the same clothes will kill me. I would need the warmer clothes in that climate. The same applies to spiritualism/religion. Our life is not always sunny. During the darkest periods we 'might' require the warmth of the God.

There is a common perception that religion has done more harm than good. Let us try to understand what develops that perception. Whenevr somebody says i hate religion and I ask why, he normally answers coz it is the cause of riots, hatred etc etc. This feeling bolsters because of our media who are obsessed with fancying every li'l negative face. Media repeatedly symobolizes religion as bad. And as Shekhar explained the power of repetition, anything which is repeatedly forced upon our mind becomes a habit and a fact. So when somebody does service in the name of God, they don't praise the religion. When I learn to love all, people will never tell that Religion and God taught me to do so. If somebody is compassionate towards the young and the old, people never ever think that his belief in the religion made him to do so. Why?

I believe its the love of religion and conversations with God( visualization indeed:-) ) developed my character. The God here is a very broad definition which includes God him/herself, My family, my friends, my teachers, my actions, my learnings, you and me. It is the love of religion which brought me closer to both computer and classical music alike.

As I said earlier we have to give as much food as one needs. We have to know the necessities of the person in front of us and feed religion accordingly. The same applies to me. I think that dwelling into details of vedanta is not as necessary to me at present as there are other things. But I believe it exists and its kinda hidden treasure. I would surely go in search of that treasure in my lifetime.  But If someone teaches me about it I am always eager to learn anytime in my life. 

I would welcome discussion...

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